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Anglican History Blog. More Thanks for dropping by! Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. Peter and Paul, which would later become St Augustine's Abbey. Augustine continued to meet success in his efforts, and founded two other episcopal sees in England, at London and at Rochester. He was however unsuccessful in extending his authority to the Christians in Wales and Dumnonia.
The Britons in those areas were suspicious of the newly arrived Augustine, and he seems to have been insufficiently conciliatory for them to agree to recognize him as the local archbishop.
In , Augustine was formally given jurisdiction over Britain as its archbishop by Gregory. Augustine, working toward Christian unity, tried to reach an agreement with the Celtic bishops. These bishops were from an earlier attempt to establish Christianity in England who had been driven north and west by earlier invasions by Germans. These bishops did not cooperate with Augustine, and refused to give up their existing traditions regarding baptism and the dating of Easter.
Together, in Canterbury, they built a new church that dated from from Roman times —dedicating it to St. Martin of Tours possibly St. Martin was a major patronal saint for the Merovingian royal family. At Christmas 10, of the king's subjects were baptized, in what is now referred to as the 'Miracle at Canterbury' or the 'Baptismal miracle at Canterbury'. Augustine sent a report of his success to Gregory with certain queries concerning his work. In Mellitus, Justus and others brought the pope's replies, with the pallium for Augustine and a present of sacred vessels, vestments, relics , books, and the like.
Gregory directed the new archbishop to ordain as soon as possible twelve suffragan bishops and to send a bishop to York, who should also have twelve suffragans—a plan which was not carried out, nor was the primatial see established at London as Gregory intended. More practicable were the pope's mandates concerning heathen temples and usages: the former were to be consecrated to Christian service and the latter, so far as possible, to be transformed into dedication ceremonies or feasts of martyrs, since 'he who would climb to a lofty height must go up by steps, not leaps'.
I voted for St. Augustine of Canterbury because he was one of a handful of missionaries to make a big difference in Great Britain. May St. Gregory the Great Patriarch of Rome be remembered for sending St. Augustine to Britain! I voted Canterbury because of his evangelism and his being first in a long line of Bishps of Canterbury. I too wondered about his out of wedlock child. Seems like he would have wanted to make that situation right.
That was my hold back on voting for Hippo. But I too liked that he held on to some local traditions. I agree with you, and our agreement amuses and pleases me. I hope you can read my post on Facebook, where I posted this link and page. In the meantime, A of Hippo gets my vote. Here in Australia the indigenous people have made great contributions. I did too, because I liked that he got scared at first, but then tired again and did wonderful things for God. I get scared a lot too, but can can still use me!
But Augustine of Canturbury messed up the established Celtic church, for which I, as a descendent of the Brythonic Celts i. And the Celtic Christians had been sanctifying and using people and places of the old religion for centuries before he appeared. This is an important point. The unfortunate tradition of conformity and control in the British churches begins here. Whitby was wrong the synod, not St. Their time called for different measures than ours, and I do grant them the benefit of the doubt. Augustine of Hippo likewise struggled with the creation-denying dualisms that were dominant in his context.
He was a remarkably faithful Christian thinker even from that starting point. No doubt he was incorrect in his belief that sex was sinful—he generalized hsi own experience and the prejudices of his culture there. But he went in a creation-affirming direction from that point.
Pelagianism remains a popular error in the church today. Pelagius was no heretic, but his absolutization of free will was an error that has had terrible consequences. Augustine remains the foremost theorist of love in the Western tradition, as far as I can tell. If you think love is important to faith, thank Augustine of Hippo. We need Augustine more than ever. He was in a sinful yet socially-acceptable cohabiting relationship, and he left it. On the other hand, he has a lot to say about his mother Monica, probably the most important person in his Christian formation.
Thank you Arnold. Your input is filled with important information. My vote is for Augustine of Hippo. Arnold, you are indeed informative and well-spoken. Others on this feed have spoken of Augustine of Hippo having loved the child he had to leave and its mother—though of course I know no basis for this, as I know little on this subject, but am learning much. It is a hurdle I find hard to get over, that a man abandons his woman and her child—and goes off—as I was often wont to do, even with a family, husband, and household help, seeking, without abandoning my Faith, to fulfill other inquiries and the development of my own talents, which I thought benefitted my family as well as me.
But I always considered these blessed mercies as perhaps risking some diminution of the attention my sons may have needed from no one else but their mother.
Since I lost two of them in their mid-adulthood, that possibility makes me yearn to know that I got anywhere near doing the best I could for the love I held toward them all. Very true, Arnold, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I voted for Canterbury. No kidding. Just as a person can convert from paganism to Christianity, so a temple can convert to a church. However, overall, Augustine of Hippo gets it for me due to the breadth and depth of his thought. I voted for Hippo because of his influence on Christian thought and because Hippo is in Africa.
Augustine -his neoplatonic vision made for beautiful theology. He is the father of western Catholic thought. Agreed, Nancy. Our parish had a pilgrimage to Great Britain last year, in honor of our patron, St. We visited St. I acknowledge the great theological contributions of the Bishop of Hippo, but felt called to vote for the first Archbishop of Canterbury! It was a tough choice, but I had to go with Hippo. I found out yesterday that someone has signed up all us choir members for coffee hour duty in the next few months, so I get your drift; still had to vote for Canterbury!
I vote for Canterbury, too. I am high church Episcopal; love prayer book worship. Am fascinated with all things Celtic; think Pelagius got it right! And I think Hippo messed up human sexuality to this very day. A black miter to Hippo. A brilliant white miter to Canterbury. Me too!
I will go for the first Archbishop of Canterbury. Actually, in his confessions, it is clear he did not. His son, Adeodatus gift from God traveled with him to Italy. He brought his mother with him to help care for the boy. Augustine was grief stricken when his son died as a youth. As harsh a critic as he could be to people of differing theological views, he was a devoted father. Thank you for clarifying this. Had this been in the description of Hippo, many would have considered this.
Thanks for offering it. Still leaning towards the Archbishop of Canterbury. Thanks for that clarification. I was feeling a bit of un-Christian judgement against Hippo for that particular detail. I, too, had issue with this, and am glad to see it clarified in a way befitting a man of such faith. Still, I go with Canterbury. They were together 15 years!
Is the SEC trying to influence the outcome by use of pictures? While he may be a major figure in the early church, he did not give us a model of constancy in his lack of fidelity to the mother of his child. In addition, Augustine of Hippo imposed the filioque clause on the Western church, damaging relations with the Eastern church. I was not of a mind to vote for Augustine of Hippo today, so I was glad to find Augustine of Canterbury, who synthesized pagan and Christian practices. I know THE Augustine is a mammoth mountain in Xian history, but today I will remain on my plodding palfrey and keep trotting to Canterbury.
Thanks be to God. The filioque was first adopted in the 6th century at a regional council in Toledo, Spain and spread back toward Rome over the course of several centuries. Augustine of Hippo was long dead by then. The filioque clause seems pretty clearly to stem from Augustine. I will add that this is a difficult vote for me today. Augustine of Hippo is indeed a mountain of the religion. I really struggle with him though. It came off as a whiny diatribe to me! I just loved your post; it made me happy to think that there are people so well-educated and well-spoken in this world.
I believe our minds are nourished by talking with intelligent people who like to indulge in the rigors of thought, as well as its delights. Wish everyone had your attitude! Very Kantian of you. Difficult decision, but I eventually chose the bishop of Canterbury. He did so much to spread the word and for me that is so important. Thank you for another wonderful Lent Madness season. Leaving his family responsibilities behind, even if not legally family, turned my stomach. Nothing to upset the tummy with Canterbury, plus my anglophile streak anyway.
Truth is, Augustine was, or felt, forced to abandon the love of his life, because his family wanted to him to marry a woman of the same social class. Leaving the love of his life broke his heart. I do like and appreciate all the great comments that continue to inform my introduction to these two Augustines. It will certainly be harder to vote if they ever face one another again in a future Lent Madness. See other comments by Freeman Gilbert. Augustine of Hippo gets my vote today. For those of us whose young adult years found us as tepid Christians.
Sharing, historically, you may agree, can and has been difficult. I myself have felt abashed at the thought of even proffering my own fragile and needy belief to anyone—though I do, if they seek help. I voted Canterbury for many of the reasons cited above, but also because, if I recall correctly, it was Augustine of Hippo who introduced the notion of original sin into Christianity.
Boo, hiss! Also, my grandfather was English, and I love the notion that kindness was given and received on both sides when Augustine of Canterbury arrived in Britannia. I voted for Augustine of Hippo because I have studied late Roman history extensively, and genuinely enjoyed reading the Confessions— in fact that reading encouraged me to reaffirm my Christianity after several years of agnosticism. Also, I think my vote would please his mother, who has been one of my heroines for years.
It has the hands to help others. It has the feet to hasten to the poor and needy. It has eyes to see misery and want. It has the ears to hear the sighs and sorrows of men. That is what love looks like. How can I not vote for a hippo, or even a rhino?
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Said folk set the standards for the faith and paved the way for the future Augustines to do their missionary work. Without the hippo, there would be no canter. Augustine remained a loving father to his son who died at Calling him a dead beat dad is just not so. Voted for Hipppo because of the personal change to his life. As an Episcopalian, I feel compelled to vote for Augustine of Canterbury.
And looking at their portraits, Hippo seems awfully stern looking while Canterbury seems warm and compassionate. If I arrive at the gates of Heaven and an Augustine is to judge me, I hope it would be friendly Canterbury. As an Anglo-Catholic Socialist, I love the following statements by Hippo: The superfluities of the rich are the necessities of the poor.
St. Augustine of Canterbury, Evangelizer of England - Orthodox Church in America
When you possess superfluity, you possess what belongs to others. God gives the world to the poor as well as to the rich. Redouble your charity. For, on account of the things which each one of us possesses singly, wars exist, hatreds, discords, strifes among human beings, tumults, dissensions, scandals, sins, injustices, and murders. Do we fight over the things we possess in common?
Augustine of Canterbury
We inhale this air in common with others, we all see the sun in common. Blessed therefore are those who make room for the Lord, so as not to take pleasure in private property. Let us therefore abstain from the possessions of private property — or from the love of it, if we cannot abstain from possession — and let us make room for the Lord.
This was another difficult one for me. Subjective, so many folks have been voting subjectively so far. First time for me, I think. The Roman church used to balance that out by offering—as does the Cathedral of St. And, outside of St. Joseph, why do we not see God as expressing some divine marriage with an equally divine female being? Remembering this quote was the tipping point in my evaluation of the two men.
I was drawn at the same time to the action of the Augustine who was sent to Britain—he and his fellow travelers faced fears and challenging travel conditions that must have required much personal courage as well as obedience.
I vote for my church lineage. Augustine of Hippo it is. Augustine of Hippo, for me, because his writings were foundational, next to Paul, in our understanding of our core doctrines; the Trinity, the Sacraments, the Church as Community and our very human longing for God which he discovered in his own life experience. Imagine this, his intellect and leadership abilities were so remarkable that the community made him a priest, even against his will, and later a bishop.
Then he went on to serve faithfully for nearly 40 more years. Canterbury — he acknowledged cultural and local traditions. No to Hippo because he abandoned his child. Actually that is explained in other comments above — son went with him to Rome and died at age This is probably the most complicated decision in all of the years I have participated in Madness…. Do I honor the centuries of theological dialogue, or the tradition of the Anglican branch.
I went with Tradition…. And the Queen liked him. And the work he began at Canterbury is still there! Remove justice, and what are kingdoms but gangs of criminals on a large scale? What are criminal gangs but petty kingdoms? A gang is a group of men under the command of a leader, bound by a compact of association, in which the plunder is divided according to an agreed convention. If this villainy wins so many recruits from the ranks of the demoralized that it acquires territory, establishes a base, captures cities and subdues peoples, it then openly arrogates to itself the title of kingdom, which is conferred on it in the eyes of the world, not by the renouncing of aggression but by the attainment of impunity.
For it was a witty and truthful rejoinder which was given by a captured pirate to Alexander the Great. Had to go with Canterbury on this one…the abandoning of the woman who had his son left a bad taste in my mouth for Hippo. But A. I went with Augustine of Hippo for his ongoing influence, but appreciated Augustin of Canterbury for his work in renewing the church.
Perhaps next year he will be in a more favorable bracket. Also, has St Monica already won already Golden Halo, or can those of us who mother other Augustines look forward to her presence in Lent Madness as we pray with her for our offspring? Hippo moved to Milan with his partner when he assumed one of the most prestigious academic positions of the time. Augustine of Canterbury is admirable for incorporating old customs into what was new Christianity for the English.
He seems to have had a problem with women once he got religion. His son lived with him until his premature death at Perhaps the hardest choice yet, but went with Hippo because of the breadth and continuity of his influence. Also because of the necklace my daughters gave me when I embarked on the Camino de Santiago: Solvitur ambulando it is solved by walking. Worked for me. Augustine of Hippo is the patron saint of St. Canterbury; wrote one of my first learned papers on Gregory the Great.
Could we make the argument that this is what Jesus did with the energy, education, and zealousness of Saul of Tarsus? So happy to see that the madness extends beyond the Episcopal Church! Yay for ecumenism! Welcome Lutherans! Went with Hippo because this is one of my favorite quotes: You called, you cried, you shattered my deafness. You sparkled, you blazed, you drove away my blindness. You shed your fragrance, and I drew in my breath, and I pant for you. I tasted and now I hunger and thirst.
You touched me, and now I burn with longing for your peace. With Canterbury, great though he was, I get the sense from the bio that a lot of the credit for his mission goes to the guidance and indeed prodding of Gregory the Great. I say this not to disparage the Cantabrigian but to contrast his place in history with the unique role played by his Hipponian namesake.
St. Augustine of Canterbury Facts
It also seems Wiki again that in the course of the Pelagian controversy Augustine wrote Pelagius a character reference even as he vehemently opposed his theological position. I have no ethnic horse in this: they were both Italian. Back when North Africa still counted as Italian, or at least Italic.
Up at the top! Missed you! But you are making up for it with lots of words! New avi and everything! I sort of stumbled into the avi by accident, in connection with a church-sponsored trip to South Africa. Thinking that what I was doing was specific to that group, I posted a picture of myself wearing Zulu face paint and was amazed when it appeared next to my first LM comment.
That shut me up for several days, until I could figure out how to change it. Ethelbert allied with Rome for political reasons and most likely converts were expressing fealty to their king. To elevate and glorify the love of God he humbled the role of humanity. It is amazing how a man so passionate about human and divine love and so faithful to both with such an incomparable body of work still inspiring and teaching the church today could come across to so many as less important than a man known only for holding a title. This is the comment that turned my vote to A of H. Had to think hard about this but Canterbury, because purifying pagan sites instead of destroying them was like the forerunner to upcycled housing.
This is a toughie! I did vote for Augustine of Hippo because his Confessions resonate with me in his vulnerability and earnestness. Augustine of Canterbury traveled to a strange land to love the people there. Gus of Hippo leaves a dark residue of misogyny wherever his otherwise brilliant theology goes; gotta go for Gus of Canterbury. Our first trip was to Canterbury and driving on the wrong side on those country roads was scary. It was a very prayerful trip — in the car and at the Cathedral! The pictures of each saint turned my vote toward Augustine of Canterbury.
AofC all the way! I also agree that Gregory was the prime mover of the conversion of the Angles. Sorry, I read Bede. I had to go with Hippo in spite of some reservations. Other contributors suggest he maintained the relationship, at least until his son tragically died at I cannot vote in good conscience until I know the truth.
Please help. I read comments — and learned a lot! I just voted and honestly cannot remember who I voted for…because my mind kept changing. Thanks to all of you who contribute your knowledge to a broader understanding of the saints — part of the reason I love Lent Madness. Hippo, because he learned along the way, chose his path NOT abandoning his son as others have noted , followed Christ, studied and wrote his thoughts, and was clearly such a good teacher that others wanted him to lead them. He led a long life and did much for the glory of God and the Church.
Canterbury, however, was much prodded and influenced by Pope Gregory, and his greatest claim to fame seems to be that he was the first of many in a long and unbroken chain. She probably had calluses on her knees but God heard her pleas. Maybe, but Hippo probably did just as much to squelch Celtic Christianity. Actually while Augustine of C brought Roman Catholicism to Britain, it was the Celtic Bishops who elected voluntarily to become part of a broader Church believing it to be one.
The Roman Catholics had no idea Celtic Christianity. The Synod of Witby was the place of this voluntary act. I was not referring to England. I have read in Plato and Cicero sayings that are wise and very beautiful; but I have never read in either of them: Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden. For many reasons i am not an Augustin of Hippo fan. Part is of course the relationship issue, but more importantly i find some of his theology disturbing — double predestination to mind does seem to be part of his thinking.
He also sounds so sanctimonious sometimes. Too true. I would have voted for him if he was the patron saint of hippos as well. BTW do hippos have their own patron saint. What Jeanine said! I DO remember voting for Augustine of Canterbury in this very tough matchup, partly I confess, because of my affection for Canterbury. Too many cultures have been erased or greatly diminished by missionaries who sullied the Gospel by preaching their own cultural trappings along with it.
See previous comments. No contest. Paul indeed, especially in articulation of the Trinity… perhaps the greatest insight into the nature of reality that we Christians have to offer. Canterbury, because I am English, and the unbroken chain of Archbishops of Catpnterbury starts here. Hippo is certainly more important to the global Church, but I know a bit about him, and would like to learn more about his namesake in England. This came during one of my more restless periods of life. Tough choice—I liked what I learned about Augustine of Canterbury.
But, I have a soft spot for Augustine of Hippo. I remember when a sister student was reading an excerpt from his confessions, and all of a sudden she threw the book down in disgust with an exclamation. Good grief! I voted for the Canterbury Augustine because well Pelagius would want it that way for the Anglicans.
Related Augustine of Canterbury
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